Modernizing mainframe environments isn’t just about adopting new tools, it’s about transforming culture. ⚙️
Hosts Daniel Newman, CEO of The Futurum Group, and Greg Lotko, SVP & GM, Mainframe Software Division at Broadcom, are joined by Sheree Britt, AVP, Software Engineering Mainframe Modernization at TD Bank, for a conversation on how her teams are breaking through the “cultural wall” of DevOps transformation. Sheree shares how TD Bank is cultivating a growth mindset, building community, and integrating modern practices, all while keeping people at the center of the mainframe!
Key takeaways include:
🔹Empowering the Modern Mainframer: How TD Bank is equipping its engineering teams with the skills and tools necessary to thrive in a hybrid IT environment, recognizing the mainframe’s continued importance alongside cloud and distributed systems.
🔹Cultivating a Culture of Agility and Growth: The conversation emphasized the importance of fostering a dynamic and adaptable culture within mainframe teams, enabling them to embrace new technologies and processes.
🔹Balancing Reliability with Innovation: Addressing the challenges of modernizing complex mainframe systems while upholding the platform’s unparalleled reputation for security and reliability.
🔹Investing in People for Future Success: Sheree shares that TD Bank’s approach prioritizes investing in its workforce through continuous learning and development, recognizing that human expertise is crucial to driving successful technology transformation.
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Transcript:
Greg Lotko: Hi, folks! Welcome back to the next episode of The Main Scoop. I’m Greg Lotko, joined by my co-host, Dan Newman, here.
Daniel Newman: Good to see you, buddy.
Greg Lotko: Great to see you in person.
Daniel Newman: Welcome back.
Greg Lotko: All right, so today we’re talking about modernization. And it’s funny, when I talk to people about this, some people think, oh, you gotta make something modern or modernize it, and then you’re done. You’re there, right? You just do it once. And I think they forget the whole idea that once you’re there, that becomes the status quo and time marches on. Things get developed, change happens.
Daniel Newman: Imagine if fashion was like that, you know, it’s just finished or done.
Greg Lotko: It is for me. I’m still living in the 80s, but yeah, I agree. Fashion always changes. There’s always something new. There’s the new look, never finished, but there’s a function. Right. More than fashion.
Daniel Newman: Technology transformation never finishes. It never stops. We get to a point and it’s the new thing. We go to large models, and then we go to small, bigger models, and then now we’re going back down to small models. Everything in tech’s always like an accordion. It gets, you know, it’s client, then it’s edge, then it’s client, then it’s data center.
Greg Lotko: So modernization, we always bring a guest in to have this conversation to keep it real. So I’m delighted to tell you today we have Sheree Britt joining us from TD. She’s probably a little nervous right now after hearing that banner, but tell us a bit about your role at TD and you can get into what your thoughts are on modernization.
Sheree Britt: Yeah, thanks for having me. So I am the Head of Mainframe Practice at TD, and my role is centered around three pillars. Practice excellence, talent acceleration, and community of interest. So throughout those three key things, we’re able to modernize, uplift our talent, and also accelerate our modernization journey.
Daniel Newman: So, Sheree, I want to make sure you get a little chance for a humble brag here. I see you were the recent recipient of the 2020 DevOps Dozen Award for DevOps Enterprise Leaders of the Year. Talk a little bit about the award, what that represents, and what that meant to you.
Sheree Britt: Yeah, so I’m very excited about that and honored to receive that award. I was thinking back as to, you know, how I got here as an engineer and also as a leader. And one of the things that has always stuck with me is excellence with caring. So as I started my career as an engineer, I always wanted to make sure that although we have a high bar, that we still consider the people and how that’s important for them. So when I was crafting what I wanted the mainframe place to be at TD, I wanted it to be the place that people wanted to gravitate towards and also wanted to deliver and create that great experience for them.
Daniel Newman: Well, congratulations, Sheree. That’s fantastic. And we’re going to come back and talk a little bit more about culture. I’m also really glad that you’re talking about DevOps, because when we talk about modernization, I mean, one of the big parts of this is figuring out how to implement those DevOps strategies. Because it’s never just mainframe. Like you have the mainframe practice, but it’s hybrid now, right? All the enterprises have hybrid applications. So you’ve got to come up with a DevOps strategy. You got to have policies in place, you got to pick the right tools, kind of how are you thinking about modern DevOps to be able to accomplish all of those things?
Sheree Britt: So people are always first because you can get really great tools. And I like to talk about the modern mainframer. So as an engineer, what do you need to learn in order to adapt? What is it that you need to add to your toolbox because you’re already good at your craft, so what else can you add to that? And so as we go down the modern mainframe path, we talk about: how do we automate? How do we build pipelines? What does an engineer need to understand so that they can also help even when you make a cloud journey, what does a mainframe engineer know that’s different from a distributed engineer that will help it be successful? So we focus on those key things for them.
Greg Lotko: I like that a lot. I think when we talk about modernization, again, like we were talking about people thinking it’s the goal, they think it is just about the outcome. It’s the “what you create.” But it’s also the “how you do it” and the people and getting them engaged with it as well.
Daniel Newman: I figured you’d really like the modern mainframer.
Greg Lotko: I do. I like the modern mainframe. Am I missing something?
Daniel Newman: No, I just figured I like how she sort of brought that to light.
Greg Lotko: You know, it’s funny if I think about it. Right, so you think about the modern mainframer. I think throughout this long history on this platform, we’ve had modern mainframers.
Daniel Newman: Yeah.
Greg Lotko: It’s just, it’s continued to evolve as new tools and new capabilities, whether it be technologies, AI, OS, Linux, to the platform, DevOps Paradigms. We’ve continued to modernize, interacting with the platform as well as what you’re capable of doing on the platform. So the modern mainframer is whatever it is today. And there were modern mainframers two years ago, three years ago, four years ago. That’s why this platform has survived and thrived, because we’re always pushing it forward to the next level.
Daniel Newman: No, it absolutely is. And I mean, one of the things I’d be super interested in hearing from you is about modern tools. Okay. Because you kind of started going into that a little bit. But so modern mainframer. Right. To someone that maybe doesn’t have the same provenance in mainframing as you two, like me, for instance. Right. That does look a little bit more broadly at the IT space might kind of almost see that as a diametrically opposed nomenclature. You don’t, you disagree? But I’m saying, you see how the industry does that to it. The point is though, is actually what’s happening is these hybrid enterprises need to think in a very forward way about how to evolve, develop, build on the mainframe. Which basically means next generation development teams. How are you kind of leading that charge at TD?
Sheree Britt: Yeah, so we actually have a really good program where we have a pipeline with engineers that come in. And one of the first things they asked me to do was talk to the team about mainframe. So I have to think really very clearly, like how would I communicate to them why they should join this team, why should they care about mainframe? And I was thinking about all of mainframe across everything we use. So depending on the industry that you’re in, especially in banking and financial services, I have a long career there, so it’s pretty much running banks. Everything they interact with that they may not be aware, whether it’s shopping or travel, that sort of thing, and then telling them, you want a differentiated skill, you know, what your peers know. Do you want to have something that will differentiate you and give you longevity? And anytime you have a new engineer come into a mainframe shop and see long careers, that’s exciting to them to know that they can have longevity within their space. They’re really excited about that.
Greg Lotko: So our goal with technology is always to create the next best thing, the capability for our team to use internally or for our customers or whatever. And I think all too often people get fixated on this capability or this specific technology. And I love that you started it with the people. How do you attract them? How do you keep them interested? How do you keep them engaged? So there’s a cultural change that’s gotta go on. So can you expand a little bit more on that around modernizing the DevOps process and what you’re doing, where maybe you were doing it across other areas in TD, but you brought it to the mainframe with commonality. How do you drive that cultural change?
Sheree Britt: Yeah. So the culture you think about, you have to have a growth mindset. And then I guess his cousin is agility. So you need those two things because as you’re growing and learning, and I’ve been an engineer for a long time, I’m sure you also. We’ve learned new things. We’ve stood the test of time, so we know it can be done. So it’s not about who can learn, it’s about how you create an environment where people can actually flourish. So that’s what we’re really focused on. And then when we get to agility, how do we pivot? So when we start on some of these tools, sometimes we have to make a shift because maybe it’s going to take us a little longer. We built these platforms for a very long time. They’re very complex, they’re intricate, and they’re sophisticated. So we need to take our time to go through that. And we need to, as leaders, also be able to help our teams manage through that.
Daniel Newman: You know, it’s interesting when she mentions that, Greg, you know, when we’re running our companies, right, we run our organizations, the tech is often not the change that’s actually hardest to find, hardest to even implement. It’s always hard to get the buy-in. It’s the culture, it’s getting the people. And so I’d be interested, Shuri, as you implement these things, what are the other challenges that arise? Like in AI, for instance, we’re finding overwhelmingly that companies aren’t lacking access to tools, but they’re struggling to actually get it implemented. Are you still seeing that same thing where you’re running into kind of the cultural wall to get people to buy in and implement the newest tools?
Sheree Britt: Right. So I would refer to it as chaos.
Daniel Newman: Chaos, I like that.
Sheree Britt: So I think I’ve always tried to be a very calm leader. So even if there’s a lot of chaos happening around, my team won’t know it because you want to keep them focused on the things that are the most important. You don’t want to have distractions because people get discouraged. So when you say something’s coming, like I have said, don’t worry, it’s coming, it’s coming, it’s coming. Yes, it’s coming for sure. You want to still be able to reinforce and give them an opportunity to work on that and then keep the chaos down. You know, create environments where people can celebrate the small wins. We talk about that a lot. So how do you celebrate people and have them actually have that momentum? And when you get that momentum, then you go fast so that you can’t, you can’t be stopped.
Greg Lotko: It’s funny, I always think of the duck on the pond, right. As leaders, we know that we always have different things coming at us. But as you develop this confidence, you may not know exactly how we’re going to solve or get through this crisis, but you know that you’ve got the right team and the capabilities around you. So one of our roles as a leader is to be the duck on the pond, bobbing on the top of the surface. And you have no idea if under the water we’re paddling like crazy to stay where we are, just to stay afloat. But also thinking about this leadership going for the long term. We talked a bit about it in the opening. Modernization is not a point that you get to. So when you’re working with the team and you’re saying, hey, here’s the things we’re going to do and we’re going to modernize, how do you keep them inspired and going when you’re never done?
Daniel Newman: Organized chaos.
Greg Lotko: Well, and it’s constant change, constant evolution.
Sheree Britt: Yeah. So I mentioned before, these systems are sophisticated. They’re. They’re big, they’re intricate. And even as an engineer, I mean, I’ve had to evolve my own career. So I think you use that as an example to keep people. I could learn, whatever. When I was placed into a team of leading distributed and mainframe, I didn’t know it and I quickly went to learn because I wanted to sit side by side with those engineers, to be able to help them solve problems. And I think they appreciated that and they understood. And then you also build trust. So you have to absolutely put yourself in the shoes of the engineers. You can’t get too far removed from what people are doing and what their challenges are and then you let them bring their voices forward to help through that journey.
Greg Lotko: I agree. It’s modeling the behavior. So when you show that you don’t necessarily know everything, that you’re willing to learn, that you’re willing to listen, it inspires them to go outside of their comfort zone and do the same.
Sheree Britt: Yes. And we also see our distributor, modern cloud, whatever we refer to them as these days, saying, what are you guys doing over there in mainframe? I think I want to learn something on the mainframe. Yes. Come, come learn over here.
Daniel Newman: Well, these things are so interdependent, right? I mean, these organizations, you know, nothing.
Greg Lotko: Exists in isolation today.
Daniel Newman: Right. But I’m saying if you actually look at the state stitching of an infrastructure, of a modern financial institution, you’re the, the role you’re in. They need someone driving, innovating, and doing a role like it. It may not be, and there’s only one you, but something like that. And then of course, they’re trying to thread that across a lot of new, different infrastructures trying to get things, you know, out to the edges onto devices. They’re trying to figure out where does public cloud fit into this? Where does hybrid? And then of course, we’ve found that there’s just absolutely no escaping the criticality of a mainframe because nothing can handle transactions at the volume like this. That’s just one thing, right?
Greg Lotko: I mean, it’s just one. The reality of you’re doing important work for the business and modernization doesn’t mean stop this and abruptly go in another direction or lose the capabilities and the abilities that you’ve already delivered to your customers and your organization it’s a modernizing evolution, right?
Daniel Newman: Yeah, it’s interesting. So I kind of heard you start to allude to it like pulling the teams in to come learn what you’re doing, you jumping across the aisle, learning what the teams that you’re collaborating with, what they’re doing. But how do you envision sort of driving forward this DevOps kind of, I like to call it a DevOps mindset because it feels like that’s kind of what’s needed. How do you drive it across the organization and of course across those functions? And what are some of those key characteristics that you’re seeing that’s helping TD be so successful?
Sheree Britt: Yeah, we’ve had a really good couple of successes that we’ve been able to deliver. So we start with innovation days with one of our platform Partners. And when you have an innovation sprint, we really focus the time for people to understand and we have those working sessions and we keep that going and they do a show and tell and then they go away and they come back sometime after and then they’re able to start implementing it. So what we want to make sure we do, we don’t just want to just be introducing new tech that you could never deploy because, you know, so.
Greg Lotko: It has something real or meaningful to do with it while you’re learning about it versus it just being an academic experience.
Sheree Britt: Yes. And then what we have found is that the experienced engineers, when, you know, people have said they want to learn something new, that has been further from the truth. They have been the ones that have been asking, how can they onboard these tools? What can they do, how can they learn them? So we keep those innovation days. We recently had a tech jam and so we showed them how we integrate everything together into a seamless solution for CI pipeline. That’s one of the things that we’ve been able to do and we really put a lot of energy into our community of interest because they are the brains. Those engineers are the ones that are going to be showing each other what they have learned. They go to their lunch, they give up their lunchtime. Sometimes we provide pizza and all sorts of things.
Sheree Britt: We get really good attendance at these Lunch and Learns and people continue to come and they continue to be inspired because we have committed to keep going. And I think that’s the part that’s the most important.
Greg Lotko: They’re also fun and meaningful. Right. It’s not a mandated thing. They’re getting value out of it and they realize they’re getting an investment in themselves, their skills and their ability to perform.
Daniel Newman: I mean, right now, if you’re in a lot of roles, technological roles, tech roles, knowledge roles, you know, it used to always be sort of those kind of frontline roles. Everyone’s worried about where technology is going to change, but you have to be on the forefront of continuously educating yourself. I would love to get your take on this sort of leadership role on how is this diffusion of information or you call it the speed of innovation because I mean, are you feeling that? Does your team feel it? Because gosh, I mean, if you’re just watching the news cycle, let alone actually in it, and of course, like how much is it sort of pushing everyone to get better.
Sheree Britt: Yeah, I think it’s important. We also have a big focus on continuous learning and education. You know, people often ask me after you know, those complete training, do you reward them? We don’t reward them in that way because the reward comes after they deliver. And we’re encouraging people to be continuous learners. We want that mindset. And so I think that’s, that’s definitely something that I practice. I often send things out to my team and people know that that’s like part of the expectation. It also helps them to develop their careers and continue to grow.
Greg Lotko: I love the idea that what we’ve been talking about here, we talk about modernization, we talk about technology. You absolutely brought the people into it. But the ongoing learning isn’t just about technology. It’s how to get people engaged, excited, learning and adapting. And it is all about that combination of the people and the technology.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, it’s another great use case that sort of verifies, validates what we’ve seen over time. Greg. I mean whether it’s leading your org, me leading my organization and research, her leading her team of engineers, there’s a combination of sort of enabling, finding people that are self-starting, that are driven to the mission. But at the same time, of course it does move quick, change quick and you do have to stay with it. I mean we didn’t even really touch on it. Maybe a final thought just here before we let you go. But is security on all of this? Right. Like in the industry you’re in the DevOps pipeline, the integration across mainframe and the entire IT enterprise stack security has got to be a massive focal point. The rise of AI is only going to make it more of a focus. How are you thinking about that? Tying all this together to make sure that you keep your customers data safe?
Sheree Britt: Right. So we move our thinking from DevOps into DevSecOps and so we have our security partners right there along with us to help us as we kind of build out how we make things more secure, how we kind of protect the engineers from themselves and kind of put security first. That’s pretty much our focus.
Greg Lotko: We definitely want TD protecting not just our data, but the money too.
Daniel Newman: Well, that is our data as far as I’m concerned. I want to know when I log in that account. I mean we’ve all heard those horror stories of people logging in into their bank account and seeing zero. And I don’t know if that’s a dev a sec or an ops issue, but it’s a problem, but you want it there when you log in there. But yeah, look, I mean it’s a really great conversation we see and you and I both know through the beginning of time of The Main Scoop financial institutions, I mean not only our world and our lives so dependent upon them, but they are just such great testimonials and use cases of what the modern enterprise IT ecosystem looks like and really an environment in which all this comes together to build and develop the future.
Greg Lotko: Thank you very much for being with us, Sheree.
Sheree Britt: Thank you for being here.
Greg Lotko: Why don’t you kind of summarize and bring us home, Daniel?
Daniel Newman: Yeah, so you know, as I see it, the future of IT, the future of financial institutions and banking has such a big and important role to play to make sure that we’re able to modernize, take advantage of next generation infrastructure, but continue to implement and integrate with the existing infrastructure that’s in place. I think these next generation diffusions of technology, that means especially AI generative agents, they’re going to continue to put a ton of pressure on our workforces. But at the same time for users, they want these seamless, frictionless experiences. Like we said, you want to log in, I want to know where my money is. I want to know if I’m a business, you know, what kind of tools and access I have. You want to know it’s running, you want to know it’s secure and you want to know it’s safe. And if you’re in the industry, if you’re an engineer, you’re a technologist, you want to work for forward companies that are doing innovative stuff, that continue to develop you, train you and keep you relevant into the future. And I think what TD’s doing with Sheree shared was really interesting.
Greg Lotko: Absolutely. Having leaders like you and people and teams that are rising to the occasion gives me confidence for the future.
Daniel Newman: Great testament to the future and a great pair of boots just in case anybody missed that and they’re hiring. And for everybody out there, I just want to say thank you so much for being part of this episode of The Main Scoop. Great conversation here. Subscribe, be part of our community. Watch all of the great episodes here. We’ve had so many great guests and if you stick around long enough, you can listen to Greg and I as well.
Greg Lotko: See you next time on the next Main Scoop.
Daniel Newman: We’ll see you all soon.
Author Information
Daniel is the CEO of The Futurum Group. Living his life at the intersection of people and technology, Daniel works with the world’s largest technology brands exploring Digital Transformation and how it is influencing the enterprise.
From the leading edge of AI to global technology policy, Daniel makes the connections between business, people and tech that are required for companies to benefit most from their technology investments. Daniel is a top 5 globally ranked industry analyst and his ideas are regularly cited or shared in television appearances by CNBC, Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal and hundreds of other sites around the world.
A 7x Best-Selling Author including his most recent book “Human/Machine.” Daniel is also a Forbes and MarketWatch (Dow Jones) contributor.
An MBA and Former Graduate Adjunct Faculty, Daniel is an Austin Texas transplant after 40 years in Chicago. His speaking takes him around the world each year as he shares his vision of the role technology will play in our future.
